let's talk about sex
[probablement Uncut, dont le journaliste fait partie]
Jon Wilde interviewer.
K: I was always thinking about chicks, but they were never the
motivating reason for playing rock and roll. Funnily enough it was
there for the guys to get off on. Then it just changed overnight. A
hit single and suddenly it was all 13 year old girls. Fucking
amazing! The week before, I couldn't get laid to save my life. Then
it turned 180 degrees and I'm having to fend them off. I wake up and
find that I'm a sex symbol, man.
But we didn't set out with that. It was more like a happy accident.
A nice little bonus, at least for a while. Then you realize that it's
getting insane and you have to learn to deal with it.
These chicks wouldn't have given me a second glance before. Now they're
throwing their knickers on stage with their telephone numbers on. All these
knickers coming at me. And I kept them all. I mean, it might seem
like every guy's fantasy, but it reaches a point where you have to
ask yourself: " are these the kind of chicks I want to hang with?"
Q: Legend has it that you were a late starter in the sex department?
K: Well, yeah. That might be true. But I actually find it very hard
to remember the actual first time. There were a couple of nice girls
at art school who showed me the way, but I'm not sure how far it
went.
I mean, I never got into a serious relationship until I was 20. Then
before I knew it I was on the road with the stones and there's chicks
all over the place wanting to get in my pants.
Well, I'm no bloody angel, know what I mean? So before I know it I'm
in bed with Ronnie Spector. That's when I found rock n' roll. That's
also when I learned about jealousy, cos I had Phil Spector chasing me
around with a shotgun. That's when I started ducking and diving. It
was a question of survival.
Q: What was your attitude to sex in the early days of the stones?
K: Well, it's always been the same really. It boils down to the fact
that I've never just been interested in a lay. If I'm going to be
with a woman, even if just for a day or two, then we've got to have a
laugh. And then, if we get around to screwing, that's wonderful.
But I've never started a relationship just for the purpose of
wham-bam-thankyou man. Chicks are too precious for that. I mean, I
love chicks. I love them too much to just roll over and stick it in.
Q: You were never interested in notches on the bed post?
K: Not at all. I could never understand the whole attitude with Bill.
You have to understand that he'd do it with anything and anybody. The
worst bags you could imagine. Anything.
I was only interested in real women. Not someone you dragged in, gave
her a quick one, kicked her out and chalked it up.
If I'm going to get into bed with someone, I gotta like 'em.
Otherwise, I'd rather go into a quiet corner and jerk off. My
attitude has always been that ladies are ladies and chicks are
chicks. They're not things to be chalked up on a score cards.
Q: How would you describe your attitude to groupies over the years?
K: Well, all I can say about the groupies of the 60s and 70s was
that there were some great girls. They weren't just interested in
Wham-Bam either. These chicks would look after you. You'd say, "I
don't feel so good today" and they'd come over and feed you. It
wasn't just fuck, fuck, fuck...well, sometimes it was. But other
times you needed to cool out and they were there for you.
But the whole groupie thing was different then. Even if you spent
the night with the most prolific girl, the most you'd get was a nasty
dose of Vietnamese Rose which could be sorted out with a couple of
barrels of antibiotics. Now it's a life and death thing. The stakes
are much higher.
Q: What kind of women always attracted you?
K: I never really had an ideal woman as such. I simply love the ones
who love me. I've never been the sort of guy who only likes blondes or
whatever. I like them all. I mean, chicks are endlessly fascinating to
me. They're always an education. I can have a load more fun with
chicks than with a bunch of guys. When men are left to there own
devices, they're always jousting, trying to put one over on each
other in a boring, macho way. But women have a different point of
view on things and they're not afraid to point out that I've been
behaving like an asshole. And I kinda like that.
Q: Would you describe yourself as a natural flirt?
K: Well, let's put it this way, when it comes to chicks, I like to
see a gleam in their eye. But it doesn't always have to be a sexual
thing. I can enjoy it just as much with Ronnie's mum or someone's
auntie. It doesn't always have to be some 6ft Playboy model. I know
plenty of them and they're lovely girls too. But it's as much fun to
sit down and have a laugh with Charlie's mum and say "Come here and
give us a kiss, darling".
See, I've discovered over the years that the feminine heart is very
warm. And guys have to learn to understand it. But a lot of guys,
they're so hung up on the idea of being male that they don't stop to
realize that you have to work at it to know what it's all about. Even
then, you don't really understand them. One of the things I like to
do, if I have the time, is listen to chicks talk. What are they
really on about? What are they saying about us? A lot of good songs
come out of that.
Q: There's the title track from the Some Girls album which concludes
that "Black girls just want to fuck all night"...
K: Well they do. At least in my experience. That's not all they want
to do. But if you can go all night, then they will to. I mean, Mick
wrote that line. and he was probably moaning because he couldn't keep
up with some chick he was seeing. So, in a way, it's a reverse joke.
But, y'know, some guys don't want to go all night. They're happy with
something a little quicker. As for myself, I'll keep going until I
run out of steam.
See, you have to understand that The Stones have always been a
horny bunch of bastards, and, once in a while, we'll write something
or do something that gets up people's noses. Like we got into trouble
over the posters for Black and Blue - with all these chicks tied up.
Well, I know a lot of chicks who like to be tied up. As long as it's
on a consensual basis, there's nothing much wrong with that. As far
as I'm concerned, a man and a woman can do anything they like
together, as long as they both agree.
Q: Have you ever used a song as a form of emotional revenge?
K: Oh yeah! There's a song on the Emotional Rescue album called All
About You. That's a particularly nasty song. It's like a litany of
insults. And it was written so I could get a few things off my chest.
The funny thing is that everyone assumes that it was written about
Anita (Pallenberg).
In fact, it's about Mick. I'd just come off junk and went back to
work with the Stones. In my absence Mick had been running the show. I
was ready to pick up where we left off. But in the meantime, Mick had
got used to being in charge...so, when I returned to the fold, I was
made to feel like an intruder. I got the impression that certain
people wished I was back on junk. Well, thank you very much , and
fuck you Jack!
So, you see, I had a lot of poison in my system and I had to get it
all out. But it's not all about Mick. That song is about a few other
things as well. And Anita is one of them. I was breaking up with her
around that time. I'd said, 'Look, if we clean up together, we'll
stay together'. Well, I cleaned myself up. But she didn't. And I
realized that I couldn't sleep with someone who had a needle beside
the bed. I was too fragile at that point. I loved her, but I had to
leave.
Q: Any perversions to declare?
K: Hey! Perversions are perversions. Don't knock 'em! And one man's
perversions are another man's...y'know? Whatever you can imagine,
there's someone there trying it. It all comes down to what turns you
on. Look at the Marquis de Sade. It comes down to the fact that some
one's got a problem. Loads of people have problems and they get
into some weird shit. You name it. Donkeys, sheep...it's not for me.
But, if I was a shepherd stuck up on the hills for a few months, a
sweet little lamb now and then might seem like an attractive
proposition. Let's face it. I'd like to think I could resist. It
would have to be a pretty cold winter for me to go for it. Then
again, who knows?
Q: But you draw the line at donkeys?
K: Well, not if the chick doesn't! Mind you, those donkeys don't half
pong. That's a major drawback. I met this chick in Cairo, she had a
special way with donkeys. She had no problem with it. Her conscience
was clear. The donkey didn't seem to mind. He didn't need much
encouragement, if you know what I mean!
Q: Any interesting fetishes that you'd like to share with our readers?
K: Oh, I do like the odd fetish. Lingerie is particularly nice to
look at. It's even nicer to take off. I can't say the same for my own
lingerie. But a chick's stuff - that's made to be taken off. It's
part of the courting dance. A wonderful dance it is too. There's
nothing more beautiful than a great-looking chick removing her
clothes. In fact, the only thing better is a great looking chick
removing mine.
Q: How important is sex?
K: A lot of guys take sex for granted. Arsenal 1 Newcastle Utd 4. So
fucking what, y' know?
But it's never been like that for me. It's important. 'Course it's
important. But it's always been the other things about women that
have meant a lot to me. They take care of you afterwards. You screw
them all night and they bring you breakfast in the morning. A nice
bit of toast. Whatever. It's the bits before and after that I find
particularly touching. The sex itself - it's not everything. I mean,
my dogs do it all the time. If that's all there is to it, you might
as well run into the street and find a lamp-post with a hole in it.
Q: How drastically did heroin affect you're sex life?
K: Well, it complicated things. That's for sure. Heroin made my life
difficult in a lot of ways. It's an incredible high. But when you
reach that high, the question is: what are you going to do with it?
Because what you have to do is get more out of it. And you end up
thinking like a criminal, even though you ain't. As far as I'm
concerned, it was an experiment that went on too long.
If you're asking me about sex...well, it's very hard to remember when
you're on heroin. Put it this way: it's not what you'd call an
aphrodisiac. With heroin, everything else goes on the back-burner,
and that includes sex. You have to remember that being a junkie is a
boring way of life. You don't wake up in the morning, look in the
mirror and start singing 'Oh What a Beautiful Morning'.
Q: You once remarked that the most important things in life were rock
n' roll and screwing. Do you still stand by that?
K: There's other things that are important. Like air, water and food.
but rock n' roll and screwing are easily the most enjoyable.
Q: In which order of preference?
K: Christ! That's a difficult one. Preferably both at once. I've had
some great ideas for songs when I've been screwing.
But, like I say, it's not just the screwing. I mean. that's a big part
of it. But it's more to do with the differences between men and women.
I've always found that area fascinating. It comes from growing up with
loads of women around me. Six aunts and the rest of it. I came to accept
the differences between men and women. After all, it's the differences
that make it interesting.
That for me is the great fascination about life: the mystery that lies
between man and woman. when you put it on a DNA card, there's only
a tiny difference. One little gene, that's all it is. But it's that
one little gene that makes it all work. All those differences...I've
never been afraid to celebrate those in certain songs - often with a
certain sense of humor.
Q: How would you summarize your feelings for women over the years?
K: Well, if I look back, I'm kinda happy about the fact that I never
needed to be pushy when it came to chicks. I was in the kind of
position where I could walk into a room and basically have my pick.
It's a hell of a lot easier to get laid if you're famous. But that
always seemed like a cheap shot to me. Far too easy. No appeal.
I just never had the attitude that a lot of guys have. I mean, a lot
of guys will just fuck anything, y'know? Just because it's there.
And these same guys...they never seem to learn anything about women.
Y'know, they'd be hard pushed to tell you where the clitoris is. Now
if a guy doesn't know where that is situated, then he's got a big
problem cos he ain't gonna satisfy any woman.
All I know is that I can't help guys like that. I'm not a doctor or a
gynecologist. All I know is that the chicks come back to me and say
'He was an asshole. He didn't have a clue' and I lend them my shoulder
to cry on. Now that's all I'm prepared to do. I'm not going to spend my
time drawing maps for guys who haven't learned to find their way around.
All I can say is that I haven't had any complaints. I never left a
woman feeling pissed off. I never had any woman chase me and tell me
that I'd let her down.
There's an art to that and it's an art that has to be learned.
Q: And finally Esther [or Dr. Ruth], a few words on a subject
particularly dear to our hearts. We're talking about bashing the
bishop, spanking the monkey, striking the old pink match...
K: Wanking, you mean? Nothing wrong with wanking, is there? I mean,
if a guy can't get hold of a chick, what's he supposed to do? I'll tell
you something for nothing...there's plenty of wankers in The Rolling
Stones.
Q: So we can safely conclude that Keith Richards likes a quick one off
the wrist as much as the next man?
K: Are you kidding? I'm a fucking expert when it comes to wanking.
Bloody hell. Quick ones. Slow ones. In-between ones. I've cut down a
bit recently, but I've done more than my fair share of wanking over
the years. If you're on the road and there ain't nothing left in the
bar, then you're going to seek refuge in Mother Fist and her Five
Daughters. Back to the room for a good wank. It's a lot less trouble
and there's more room in the bed.
Q: Even allowing for the donkey?
K: The donkey, the guide dog, the old march hare. I'm not fussy...
Jesus! I can't wait for this article to come out. Send me one, will you?
Jon Wilde interviewer.
K: I was always thinking about chicks, but they were never the
motivating reason for playing rock and roll. Funnily enough it was
there for the guys to get off on. Then it just changed overnight. A
hit single and suddenly it was all 13 year old girls. Fucking
amazing! The week before, I couldn't get laid to save my life. Then
it turned 180 degrees and I'm having to fend them off. I wake up and
find that I'm a sex symbol, man.
But we didn't set out with that. It was more like a happy accident.
A nice little bonus, at least for a while. Then you realize that it's
getting insane and you have to learn to deal with it.
These chicks wouldn't have given me a second glance before. Now they're
throwing their knickers on stage with their telephone numbers on. All these
knickers coming at me. And I kept them all. I mean, it might seem
like every guy's fantasy, but it reaches a point where you have to
ask yourself: " are these the kind of chicks I want to hang with?"
Q: Legend has it that you were a late starter in the sex department?
K: Well, yeah. That might be true. But I actually find it very hard
to remember the actual first time. There were a couple of nice girls
at art school who showed me the way, but I'm not sure how far it
went.
I mean, I never got into a serious relationship until I was 20. Then
before I knew it I was on the road with the stones and there's chicks
all over the place wanting to get in my pants.
Well, I'm no bloody angel, know what I mean? So before I know it I'm
in bed with Ronnie Spector. That's when I found rock n' roll. That's
also when I learned about jealousy, cos I had Phil Spector chasing me
around with a shotgun. That's when I started ducking and diving. It
was a question of survival.
Q: What was your attitude to sex in the early days of the stones?
K: Well, it's always been the same really. It boils down to the fact
that I've never just been interested in a lay. If I'm going to be
with a woman, even if just for a day or two, then we've got to have a
laugh. And then, if we get around to screwing, that's wonderful.
But I've never started a relationship just for the purpose of
wham-bam-thankyou man. Chicks are too precious for that. I mean, I
love chicks. I love them too much to just roll over and stick it in.
Q: You were never interested in notches on the bed post?
K: Not at all. I could never understand the whole attitude with Bill.
You have to understand that he'd do it with anything and anybody. The
worst bags you could imagine. Anything.
I was only interested in real women. Not someone you dragged in, gave
her a quick one, kicked her out and chalked it up.
If I'm going to get into bed with someone, I gotta like 'em.
Otherwise, I'd rather go into a quiet corner and jerk off. My
attitude has always been that ladies are ladies and chicks are
chicks. They're not things to be chalked up on a score cards.
Q: How would you describe your attitude to groupies over the years?
K: Well, all I can say about the groupies of the 60s and 70s was
that there were some great girls. They weren't just interested in
Wham-Bam either. These chicks would look after you. You'd say, "I
don't feel so good today" and they'd come over and feed you. It
wasn't just fuck, fuck, fuck...well, sometimes it was. But other
times you needed to cool out and they were there for you.
But the whole groupie thing was different then. Even if you spent
the night with the most prolific girl, the most you'd get was a nasty
dose of Vietnamese Rose which could be sorted out with a couple of
barrels of antibiotics. Now it's a life and death thing. The stakes
are much higher.
Q: What kind of women always attracted you?
K: I never really had an ideal woman as such. I simply love the ones
who love me. I've never been the sort of guy who only likes blondes or
whatever. I like them all. I mean, chicks are endlessly fascinating to
me. They're always an education. I can have a load more fun with
chicks than with a bunch of guys. When men are left to there own
devices, they're always jousting, trying to put one over on each
other in a boring, macho way. But women have a different point of
view on things and they're not afraid to point out that I've been
behaving like an asshole. And I kinda like that.
Q: Would you describe yourself as a natural flirt?
K: Well, let's put it this way, when it comes to chicks, I like to
see a gleam in their eye. But it doesn't always have to be a sexual
thing. I can enjoy it just as much with Ronnie's mum or someone's
auntie. It doesn't always have to be some 6ft Playboy model. I know
plenty of them and they're lovely girls too. But it's as much fun to
sit down and have a laugh with Charlie's mum and say "Come here and
give us a kiss, darling".
See, I've discovered over the years that the feminine heart is very
warm. And guys have to learn to understand it. But a lot of guys,
they're so hung up on the idea of being male that they don't stop to
realize that you have to work at it to know what it's all about. Even
then, you don't really understand them. One of the things I like to
do, if I have the time, is listen to chicks talk. What are they
really on about? What are they saying about us? A lot of good songs
come out of that.
Q: There's the title track from the Some Girls album which concludes
that "Black girls just want to fuck all night"...
K: Well they do. At least in my experience. That's not all they want
to do. But if you can go all night, then they will to. I mean, Mick
wrote that line. and he was probably moaning because he couldn't keep
up with some chick he was seeing. So, in a way, it's a reverse joke.
But, y'know, some guys don't want to go all night. They're happy with
something a little quicker. As for myself, I'll keep going until I
run out of steam.
See, you have to understand that The Stones have always been a
horny bunch of bastards, and, once in a while, we'll write something
or do something that gets up people's noses. Like we got into trouble
over the posters for Black and Blue - with all these chicks tied up.
Well, I know a lot of chicks who like to be tied up. As long as it's
on a consensual basis, there's nothing much wrong with that. As far
as I'm concerned, a man and a woman can do anything they like
together, as long as they both agree.
Q: Have you ever used a song as a form of emotional revenge?
K: Oh yeah! There's a song on the Emotional Rescue album called All
About You. That's a particularly nasty song. It's like a litany of
insults. And it was written so I could get a few things off my chest.
The funny thing is that everyone assumes that it was written about
Anita (Pallenberg).
In fact, it's about Mick. I'd just come off junk and went back to
work with the Stones. In my absence Mick had been running the show. I
was ready to pick up where we left off. But in the meantime, Mick had
got used to being in charge...so, when I returned to the fold, I was
made to feel like an intruder. I got the impression that certain
people wished I was back on junk. Well, thank you very much , and
fuck you Jack!
So, you see, I had a lot of poison in my system and I had to get it
all out. But it's not all about Mick. That song is about a few other
things as well. And Anita is one of them. I was breaking up with her
around that time. I'd said, 'Look, if we clean up together, we'll
stay together'. Well, I cleaned myself up. But she didn't. And I
realized that I couldn't sleep with someone who had a needle beside
the bed. I was too fragile at that point. I loved her, but I had to
leave.
Q: Any perversions to declare?
K: Hey! Perversions are perversions. Don't knock 'em! And one man's
perversions are another man's...y'know? Whatever you can imagine,
there's someone there trying it. It all comes down to what turns you
on. Look at the Marquis de Sade. It comes down to the fact that some
one's got a problem. Loads of people have problems and they get
into some weird shit. You name it. Donkeys, sheep...it's not for me.
But, if I was a shepherd stuck up on the hills for a few months, a
sweet little lamb now and then might seem like an attractive
proposition. Let's face it. I'd like to think I could resist. It
would have to be a pretty cold winter for me to go for it. Then
again, who knows?
Q: But you draw the line at donkeys?
K: Well, not if the chick doesn't! Mind you, those donkeys don't half
pong. That's a major drawback. I met this chick in Cairo, she had a
special way with donkeys. She had no problem with it. Her conscience
was clear. The donkey didn't seem to mind. He didn't need much
encouragement, if you know what I mean!
Q: Any interesting fetishes that you'd like to share with our readers?
K: Oh, I do like the odd fetish. Lingerie is particularly nice to
look at. It's even nicer to take off. I can't say the same for my own
lingerie. But a chick's stuff - that's made to be taken off. It's
part of the courting dance. A wonderful dance it is too. There's
nothing more beautiful than a great-looking chick removing her
clothes. In fact, the only thing better is a great looking chick
removing mine.
Q: How important is sex?
K: A lot of guys take sex for granted. Arsenal 1 Newcastle Utd 4. So
fucking what, y' know?
But it's never been like that for me. It's important. 'Course it's
important. But it's always been the other things about women that
have meant a lot to me. They take care of you afterwards. You screw
them all night and they bring you breakfast in the morning. A nice
bit of toast. Whatever. It's the bits before and after that I find
particularly touching. The sex itself - it's not everything. I mean,
my dogs do it all the time. If that's all there is to it, you might
as well run into the street and find a lamp-post with a hole in it.
Q: How drastically did heroin affect you're sex life?
K: Well, it complicated things. That's for sure. Heroin made my life
difficult in a lot of ways. It's an incredible high. But when you
reach that high, the question is: what are you going to do with it?
Because what you have to do is get more out of it. And you end up
thinking like a criminal, even though you ain't. As far as I'm
concerned, it was an experiment that went on too long.
If you're asking me about sex...well, it's very hard to remember when
you're on heroin. Put it this way: it's not what you'd call an
aphrodisiac. With heroin, everything else goes on the back-burner,
and that includes sex. You have to remember that being a junkie is a
boring way of life. You don't wake up in the morning, look in the
mirror and start singing 'Oh What a Beautiful Morning'.
Q: You once remarked that the most important things in life were rock
n' roll and screwing. Do you still stand by that?
K: There's other things that are important. Like air, water and food.
but rock n' roll and screwing are easily the most enjoyable.
Q: In which order of preference?
K: Christ! That's a difficult one. Preferably both at once. I've had
some great ideas for songs when I've been screwing.
But, like I say, it's not just the screwing. I mean. that's a big part
of it. But it's more to do with the differences between men and women.
I've always found that area fascinating. It comes from growing up with
loads of women around me. Six aunts and the rest of it. I came to accept
the differences between men and women. After all, it's the differences
that make it interesting.
That for me is the great fascination about life: the mystery that lies
between man and woman. when you put it on a DNA card, there's only
a tiny difference. One little gene, that's all it is. But it's that
one little gene that makes it all work. All those differences...I've
never been afraid to celebrate those in certain songs - often with a
certain sense of humor.
Q: How would you summarize your feelings for women over the years?
K: Well, if I look back, I'm kinda happy about the fact that I never
needed to be pushy when it came to chicks. I was in the kind of
position where I could walk into a room and basically have my pick.
It's a hell of a lot easier to get laid if you're famous. But that
always seemed like a cheap shot to me. Far too easy. No appeal.
I just never had the attitude that a lot of guys have. I mean, a lot
of guys will just fuck anything, y'know? Just because it's there.
And these same guys...they never seem to learn anything about women.
Y'know, they'd be hard pushed to tell you where the clitoris is. Now
if a guy doesn't know where that is situated, then he's got a big
problem cos he ain't gonna satisfy any woman.
All I know is that I can't help guys like that. I'm not a doctor or a
gynecologist. All I know is that the chicks come back to me and say
'He was an asshole. He didn't have a clue' and I lend them my shoulder
to cry on. Now that's all I'm prepared to do. I'm not going to spend my
time drawing maps for guys who haven't learned to find their way around.
All I can say is that I haven't had any complaints. I never left a
woman feeling pissed off. I never had any woman chase me and tell me
that I'd let her down.
There's an art to that and it's an art that has to be learned.
Q: And finally Esther [or Dr. Ruth], a few words on a subject
particularly dear to our hearts. We're talking about bashing the
bishop, spanking the monkey, striking the old pink match...
K: Wanking, you mean? Nothing wrong with wanking, is there? I mean,
if a guy can't get hold of a chick, what's he supposed to do? I'll tell
you something for nothing...there's plenty of wankers in The Rolling
Stones.
Q: So we can safely conclude that Keith Richards likes a quick one off
the wrist as much as the next man?
K: Are you kidding? I'm a fucking expert when it comes to wanking.
Bloody hell. Quick ones. Slow ones. In-between ones. I've cut down a
bit recently, but I've done more than my fair share of wanking over
the years. If you're on the road and there ain't nothing left in the
bar, then you're going to seek refuge in Mother Fist and her Five
Daughters. Back to the room for a good wank. It's a lot less trouble
and there's more room in the bed.
Q: Even allowing for the donkey?
K: The donkey, the guide dog, the old march hare. I'm not fussy...
Jesus! I can't wait for this article to come out. Send me one, will you?
