Affichage des articles dont le libellé est interviews Keith. Afficher tous les articles
Affichage des articles dont le libellé est interviews Keith. Afficher tous les articles

lundi, août 14, 2006

Rolling Stone : livre d'interviews


Je n'ai jamais eu le courage de taper sur micro, pour la mettre ici, toute l'interview de Keith à Nellcôte (par Robert Greenfield). Elle fait je ne sais combien de pages. Elle est sans doute la plus mythique. Pour ma part, l'ayant lue tardivement après bien d'autres, je n'avais pas eu le sentiment d'y apprendre tant de choses que cela en la découvrant il y a deux ou trois ans. Il faudrait que je la relise.
Toujours est-il que je découvre seulement maintenant, au hasard d'une recherche, que Rolling Stone a publié en 89 (ou réédité en 89 ?) un bouquin de ses fameuses interviews, qui l'inclut.
Qui sait si l'interview, que je n'avais pas réussi à trouver sur le net, ne s'y trouve pas aujourd'hui d'ailleurs.
Le bouquin quant à lui est dispo sur amazon.com
Les heureux nominés sont :
Donovan 1967 (J Carpenter) Bob Dylan 1967 (Gleason) B.B. King 1968 (Gleason) Eric Clapton 1968 (Wenner) Pete Townshend 1968 (Wenner) Mick Jagger 1968 (J Cott) Jim Morrison 1969 (J Hopkins) Phil Spector 1969 (Wenner) Bob Dylan 1969 (Wenner) Little Richard 1970 (D Dalton) Van Morrison 1970 (H Traum) Grace Slick & Paul Kantner 1970 (B Fong-Torres) Rod Stewart 1970 (J Morthland) John Lennon 1971 (Wenner) Keith Richards 1971 (R Greenfield) Jerry Garcia 1972 (Wenner & C Reich) Paul Simon 1972 (J Landau) Chuck Berry 1972 (P W Salvo) Keith Moon 1972 (J Hopkins) James Taylor & Carly Simon 1973 (S Werbin) Ray Charles 1973 (B Fong-Torres) Johnny Cash 1973 (R Hilburn) Stevie Wonder 1973 (B Fong-Torres) Elton John 1973 (P Gambaccini) Paul McCartney 1974 (P Gambaccini) Jimmy Page & Robert Plant 1975 (C Crowe) Neil Young 1975 (C Crowe) Mick Jagger 1978 (J Cott) Linda Ronstadt 1978 (P Herbst) Bob Dylan 1978 (J Cott) Paul McCartney 1979 (P Gambaccini) Joni Mitchell 1979 (C Crowe) James Taylor 1979 (P Herbst) Pete Townshend 1980 (G Marcus) Billy Joel 1980 (T White).

samedi, novembre 20, 2004

Keith Richards 92 R&F (extraits)

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Elle est bien l’interview de Keith par Manœuvre (R&F novembre 92).
Contexte : Il est avec son groupe bis et enregistre depuis mars (Main offender), il n’a pas vu passer l’été. Manœuvre se pointe, avec Gassian, premier d’une série de 35 journalistes pour l’interviewer. On dirait pas parce qu’ils prennent leur temps.
Des extraits de cette itw sont dans le bouquin de Manœuvre, mais c’est mieux en entier et non (ou moins) trafiqué. Ceci dit, ici, je n’en mets que des bribes !

- A l’époque, Bill est sur le départ, c’est pas certain apparemment (me souviens plus de la chronologie) :
Et si Bill Wyman ne veut plus revenir alors ?
Mmmhhh… Bonne question. Ca me trotte dans le ciboulot en permanence (long silence)… Si Bill Wyman ne veut pas revenir, il faudra un autre bassiste ! Les Stones ne vont tout de même pas s’arrêter parce que Bill Wyman ne veut plus jouer avec eux. Tu crois pas ? Ma théorie c’est qu’il va changer d’avis. Mon attitude c’est : quand le temps viendra d’enregistrer avec les Stones, Bill sera là ou il ne sera pas là. Et là, il faut que j’enquête. Tu sais, il nous envoie des messages par presse interposée « Fini terminé pour moi nanana… ! ». Et puis d’un autre côté, tu rencontres certains de ses proches et eux te disent tout autre chose… Moi, je ne l’ai pas vu depuis un an, Bill ! Aucune idée de ses sentiments actuels.
J'en parlais avec des vieux fans français des Stones, et l'un d'eux m'a dit : "Qu'ils mettent Ron Wood à la basse et reprennent Mick Taylor à la guitare"
Ah ah ah ! Tu leur diras de ma part que c'est ce que j'ai entendu de mieux sur le sujet !
Plus loin dans l’interview :
Tiens essaye un peu de nous aligner tous les cinq pour faire une photo des Stones en 92… Non, l’important, c’est qu’on a retrouvé beaucoup de désir et pas mal d’énergie. On sait qu’on a besoin les uns des autres parce qu’on a réalisé à quel point on aimait jouer ensemble. Et même Bill va finir par s’en rendre compte. En tous cas, je l’espère, parce que c’est le dernier truc que je voudrais, perdre Bill.

- Sur Brian : pourquoi est-il si incroyablement salaud quand il en parle, ça heurte des tas de gens.
Il répond encore une fois que Brian s’est désintégré, on pouvait rien pour lui, il se foutait de la gueule de ceux qui voulaient l’aider, il avait fini par choper la grosse tête, à se prendre pour dieu, etc etc. MAIS comme Manœuvre nous décrit aussi la bande son et l'image, on apprend que le K. est « bouleversé » « secoué » et pas du tout glacial/froid/j’en ai rien à foutre de ce mec quand il a fini d’en parler. Ca change tout, et on espère que c’est vrai. Le Sunkist orange ça peut aussi tirer des larmes.

- Une question que je lui ai posée sur son site (no answer !) mais voici la réponse :
L’Angleterre, ça te manque ? Je veux dire, tu es obligé de vivre à New York non ?
Je vais te dire… Je rentre là bas et le grand choc, c’est quand je retrouve les odeurs de l’Angleterre… Snif snif oooooohhhhh… Mais qu’est ce que je peux y faire ? Et puis au fur et à mesure que je me balade dans Londres, de toutes façons je ne reconnais plus rien ! Jésus, c’est ma ville natale et je m’y sens comme le dernier des touristes ! C’est mon destin, ça. Peux pas rentrer chez moi, j’ai plus de maison. L’Angleterre que j’ai connue, elle est où ? Elle a changé, sans moi ! Mais je m’en fous, c’est ok.

- Parlant de ses Winos :
C’est « ma clique » (en français). On va tuer le monde, mon cher ! Où est mon flingue ? On approche la musique comme vous, les Français, vous avez approché la Bastille.
Manœuvre :
Ca, au pays, ils vont comprendre !
Keith :
C’est le premier truc rock’n roll que vous ayez fait, les mecs !

- In fine :
Et puis, il y a ta biographie qui vient de sortir…
Oh le bouquin de Victor… euh Victor…
Bokris !
Oui tout le monde m’en parle, je n’y ai absolument pas participé ah non ! Donc j’ai jeté un œil là-dedans, j’ai pas pu le croire ! Il a ressorti toutes ces histoires. Le changement de sang ! Je veux dire : encore (crise de rire) ! Il a fait ça dans son coin, tout seul. C’est pas mon livre, c’est son livre. Et la plus grande partie du bouquin, ce sont des archives, de vieilles interviews recollées, si j’ai bien compris, il a interviewé deux ou trois personnes en plus… J’en sais rien ! C’est pas intéressant. Et puis moi, je sais tout sur moi, c’est peut-être pour ça que je trouve le bouquin chiant, hey ?

(L’itw est longue, je vais pas tout résumer).

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samedi, octobre 09, 2004

Keith Richards - 1988

by DAVID LANGSAM
The Politics, Philosophy and Psychology of the Rolling Stones
Keith Richards interviewed at his Broadway, New York office.
December 1988 Keith Richards confidantly predicts the Rolling Stones willback on the road with a new album and a world tour in 1989 -but if it takes time to organise, the X-Pensive Winos - hisTalk Is Cheap album band - will tour Australia and Japanbefore the Stones work begins. However his trenchantcriticism of Mick Jagger as in this interview ''He has nofriends, he has no character''and Bill Wyman ''they take itfor granted that people love the shit that comes out oftheir arseholes'' makes it difficult to imagine the fiveworking together again ... Keith, a heroin-clean family of four man is very hung upover Mick. He thanks him immensely for saving him throughhis heroin habit days and admits a great love for hislifelong friend. But Keith is adamant that he has his acttogether and is at one with himself, while Mick has nofriends (other than Keith), only yes men and Mick needs helpto come to terms with his future. Mick may well havedifferent views on these matters. In fact the phrase ''He protesteth too much'' comes to mindas Keith carves into Mick's lack of character and then needto find himself. Maybe Mick doesn't agree with Keith. Maybethey have just gone their separate ways after 40 yearstogether and 25 years on the road together ... It's sad butit does happen. Whether the Stones regroup, record and tourthis year will depend on the five principals and if, asKeith claims below, he really wants to keep his bandtogether, he'd better soften some of the body blows he'slanding.
DAVID LANGSAM flew to New York from his homebase in London,to attend the last gig of Keith Richards' US tour at Meadowlands New Jersey, went to the end of tour party andmet Keith in his office on Broadway, above one of the fewliquor stores that sell Rebel Yell bourbon north of theMason Dixon line.
David Langsam: You've just finished your first solo tour -your first time on the road without Charlie, Bill, Ron andof course, Mick - well, what do you think?
Keith Richards: It was absolutely great. At the moment I'mjust realising that it's finished - the body keeps going,''Where's the gig?'' Nine o'clock and my body wants to goonstage and there's no stage to go to anymore. You get apost tour depression. It always sets in. The tour was fantastic, the crowds amazing. For me the wholething was an experiment, which is why I decided, except forMeadowlands, to do small theatres and stuff where I didn'thave to think about the sound and I could figure out whetherI could carry this thing off or not as a front man ... andthat worked. I'm very happy.
DAVID: I liked you as a front man, doing a Mick Jagger does Keith ­Richards, bouncing around the front and centre stage... and then you'd break it with a self-deprecating grin asif to say ''this is just crap, yeah I can strut my stuff butI don't need to.'' How do you feel about being able to fronta band?
KEITH: It was mainly a matter of whether I could personallyhandle it or whether I would just dry up having to handle awhole show by myself. I was unnaturally calm at the firstgig, in Atlanata. Usually I get excited, nerves don't reallycome into it, but I get an ''open the cage, let me out, letme at them'' feeling, but for the first gig I must havenumbed myself in some way, because I had this unnaturalclarity of what was going on and wasn't actually feelinganything at all until I got into the show. It was after thefirst show that I realised, ''Yeah I can handle this.'' The first one's the toughest always. After that it's amatter of mech­anics, whether the voice holds out. Then ifyou can get through one show you can get through hundreds.The next gig, the next day, was Memphis and that's when Iknew it was okay, because I had that same feeling again,''Okay open the cage ... let me at them,'' so it wasalright.
DAVID: They were serious music places to open a tour,particularly Memphis. What was it like headlining your ownact in Memphis?
KEITH: In a ballroom, too. There were some great gigs. InDetroit we played in an old Fox theatre that had beentotally redecorated. It's almost a replica of the one in StLouis I did the Chuck Berry movie in ... incredibly ornateTwenties joint. I had heard that theatre was a flea pit acouple of years ago and they'd only just opened it againafter doing an incredible job. It's a serious old gig, abeautiful theatre and you get great sounds in those places.And there's no distance between you and the crowd ...they've got their fingers on the stage. It's very intimateand you can whip up a lot of excitement.
DAVID: What was the opening communal crouch about?
KEITH: I didn't want it to start with ''Ladies and Gentlemen Keith Richards and the X-Pensive Winos'' I thought we'd justgo on, sit down and finish our cigarettes and talk over whatwe're doing and bring the lights up slowly and when we'reready to go, go. Everybody wonders what the hell's going on and actually itcalms the band down and stops the nerves getting to anybody. We just finish our cigarettes, finish our drinks and justwish each other good luck. And when I know everybody's readyI just start the song. It centres the band and leaves alittle feeling of intimacy in a way to the audience -especially in the smaller theatres. It lets the audiencethink they're being let into some private rehearsal orscene. It draws them in, it's a little bit of theatre ...and also (laughing) it's very cheap.
DAVID: The obvious question is whether you'll stay with thisor go back to the Stones, but in fact you now have theoption to either perform solo, or work with the Stones?
KEITH: The ideal thing for me would be to do both. The Stones don't work enough for my liking. To get the best workout of myself I have to work more often than the Stones canpossibly work. The machinery is so big in the Stonesorganization you tour maybe once every two years. The Stonesnow haven't been on the road for six years, it will be sevenif they get on the road next year ... which is a long time. And for a musician that's not a good thing. A musician needsfairly regular constant work, practice, to keep your chopstogether so that it flows out of you naturally. The Stones, when we record or go on tour, I have to knockthe rust off the machinery for a couple of months first, andit's a hard grind to get them into top gear. The ideal thingwould be to work both of these bands: It would help me bemuch more well-oiled for when I work with the Stones andalso ... I like this band a lot. These guys are amazing. Onegood band in a life time is a miracle and to find two ...some­body's really smiling on you when you do that, when youget two great bands together. Around July or August we had a meeting in London and theysaid, ''Yeah let's do it. We want to do it.'' So I thinkthat it's a 99 percent surety that we'll definitely be onthe road this year and if things work out, maybe a newrecord before then, if we can get one together in time. Sobarring any fatal accidents of any kind or major explosions,I would imagine that somehow we'll see the Stones on theroad in '89.
DAVID: The Meadowlands gig at the end of the tour was quitea departure from a Stones gig in two ways. Firstly, Iexpected a wider age range, but it was overwhelmingly lateteens, college kids, high school students - which is greatfor you because it means you're breaking into a new audience- and secondly, while it was boppy, the music was lessdanceable than a Stones concert - more serious listeningmusic. In fact while watching you I was thinking this feelsmore like a Bo Diddley gig or a BB King show than a stadiumrock band.
KEITH: That's true. It's a very musical band to start withand most of the emphasis was the music. There's veryunderstated lighting, absolutely no visual gimmicks at all.It was designed to be concentrated on as music, but withenough power and enough looseness to not become stuffy asrecital. But Meadowlands was the only big place that weplayed, so in a way, although it was the last show it feltlike the first show because we were using all new equipment,much bigger equipment, so we had to change a lot of things.The show was basically designed for the more intimatesmaller theatres ... three thousand four thousand people andthat was 15 thousand. The other big problem I always thought I would have istrying to remember lyrics all the way through. And which atthe beginning for the first couple of shows I did have. Asyou're coming up to the microphone after, say, a guitar soloand you think, ''I have no idea what the words are'' andyou've got ten seconds or a tenth of a second and there itis ... it just comes out. In a way it's like slow motion. That's the ideal feeling onstage. That everything has slowed down for you. It's likebeing in a car crash ... the car's rolling over for thethird time and it seems it's been going on for half an hourand you know it's only a split second. It's that clarity youget.
DAVID: You have quite a reputation for car crashes, haven't you?
KEITH: I've had a few. Everything slows down and you're wondering whether you'll get the hell out. I've been in carcrashes where you actually do get out. I've watched it fromabove, saying, ''I'm a goner. This is it. No way am I goingto survive this.'' And suddenly you're watching it all from above. And by somequirk of fate you're actually still alive when the wholething is all over and suddenly ... bvoom ... you're back inthe driving seat again. It is a very strange feeling andonstage it can be like that sometimes. You just disappearand suddenly when it's time for you to be back insideyourself ... bvoom ... you're there and it's a strangefeeling. Maybe it's something to do with the afterlife, Idon't know. What was really great about this band on the road was that it was the same as playing with the Stones ... I didn't evenhave to look around. When I knew we had screwed up thearrangement somehow, but we'd just play it through toanother chorus and we'd bounce back in again. Which is what the Stones are very good at. Especially whenMick is halfway down a football stadium, half a mile awaynearly and you can hardly hear what's going on, because it'sso far away and you get this echo zooming around. With agood band you kind of know what the other guys are thinkingeven though you can't see them. You say, ''They know I'vescrewed up'' but you don't have to look around to try topull anything together, you can feel them all in the back ofyour mind, ''Okay we're with you''. Which is what the Stones prided themselves with working with Mick. No matter where he was, if he was halfway down a stadium oron one of those ramps we used to use ... he could be a tinylittle figure way down there, but if he screwed up a verse,or got dragged off the stage by some chick, he didn't haveto worry that the band would be there. And that's the signof a really great band, that unconscious picking up withoutany effort at all, without any consternation, that's theamazing thing.
DAVID: You're really missing those guys aren't you?
KEITH: Of course I miss them. I've known Mick for nearly 40 years ... Ronnie's a newcomer and he's been with us a mere 15 years or is it 13 years? And the other guys have beentogether 25 years. You're bound to miss people. I miss themall, they're all great friends of mine. As much as I miss them, I can, which I never thought Icould, work with other people as well. Before I startedworking on my own over the last couple of years, it justseemed so monumental to me, the task of trying to puttogether something else. When the Stones decided not towork, I decided, ''Well I got to work''. I can't just sit around on my arse and wait for the Stones to decide when I'mgoing to work again. But the task seemed too monumental tocontemplate ... to find other guys to play with and put itall together. Probably because I'd never had to do it sinceputting the Stones together in 1962.
DAVID: The album, Talk is Cheap, is a great album, but it'sbombed in the UK and in Australia, where you've done littleor no press and there's no tour planned, despite your ratherstrident criticism of Mick (Jagger) for not following upDirty Work. There are a lot of disappointed Keith Richardsfans in Europe and Australia who would have loved to haveseen you tour with X-Pensive Winos. It might have made the album chart.
KEITH: I'm not too concerned where it's done well and where it hasn't. It's already far exceeded what I expected it todo. I expected it to do respectably, but I can't be in Australia and in the UK and in America at the same time. If I had the time, I'd love to take this band everywhere and indue course, hopefully I can. There's no possible way I could have done a world tour atthis time given the fact that the Stones are going to beworking next year. If I had the time I would have loved tohave done that and the band were ready to go. And as far asthe record company is concerned, we've only had one single (Take It So Hard) out so far. There's plenty of otheralbums that don't take off until the second or third single.
DAVID: Like some Stones albums, Talk Is Cheap doesn't sound so good on the first listening, but the more you listen tothe tracks the more you like them. There's a deceptivebeauty to them.
KEITH: Exile On Main Street was like that. That was universally panned when it came out. And it was a double album. People get overloaded with double albums. There's somuch to listen to, you get confused. This album's like thatin a way. There's far more depth to it than you can possiblycatch on a first listening and it does take a few listens, which is why I mean there's plenty of room for this album todo things yet. As long as we can keep the interest alive onit, I think you'll find this album will still be a grower.They dumped a gold record on me after the Meadowlands gig, so we've done that. In Germany, France and Italy it's done very very well. And Scandinavia, Japan, as I say, it's been a blockbuster. The rest of the world has been much stronger with it than just America. That's another thing that makes me think it wouldbe very worthwhile to get these boys on the road. There's alot more interest out there than I thought there would be.
DAVID: I've always been interested in the social and political philosophy of the Stones. You've been adopted by everyone from Hippies to the Hells Angels. There's been much controversy about your lyrics: Street ­fighting Man is an anthem, Salt of the Earth, Brown Sugar, Heaven, You Can't Always Get What You Want, Luxury - so many of them analyse social conditions. But noticably your songs, Happy, T & A, You Got the Silver, All About You, Coming Down Again and just about everything on Talk Is Cheap are love songs, or blues songs. They're emotional, they're self-descriptive with little or no social comment.
KEITH: Mick's more of a preacher than I am, in his method of delivery etcetera. With Mick I can sit down and write on amore political level, a more social level, because he candeliver it that way. To me, when I get down to it, there's really not very much difference. A song about you and I isreally about the same thing at a more intimate level. It'sjust a matter of can we get along? And that's after all what society is. And that's all politics are. Between us all, how do we get along? And I usually focus it down to a morepersonal level, because I can deliver it better that way.Mick can sing it at a far more general level. In a way you only reflect what is going on out there. Also I find there's only so much you can say on a political or a social level. If you keep on doing it it starts to get hollow. And it's the same with Bob Dylan. Bob probably wrotesome of the best social commentaries in the 60s thatanybody's ever written. You can't keep on ... you can onlysay that sort of thing once or twice with any realconviction or otherwise you're just repeating yourself. AndI don't think rock'n'roll music's strong point is in being so pointed. One thing that did get over the Iron Curtain was music. You can buy Rolling Stones records in Moscow on the black market at 65 bucks a piece. And many other artists too. I think ageneration of all that has been - I won't say a main factor- but a strong factor in the reason that Gorbachev has said,''We can't keep the gates locked anymore. We've got to startto converse with people otherwise we're screwed.'' And so maybe music has an effect. But not just from the lyrics,because people don't all speak English and they're buying iton a far more human level. Music's way of doing things isfar more subtle than just by preaching about things that aregoing down. The power of music, the essence of it is not so much what is said but the fact that it is there.
DAVID: Mick sings ''Every cop is a criminal, all the sinners saints''. You sing ''I'm gonna walk before they make me run''. The first is social comment, political if you like.The second is self descriptive. Do you see yourself as an anarchist, as an outsider or like Bowie's Thomas Newtoncharacter in The Man Who Fell To Earth -ª a creature fromfar away bemused by the games people play?
KEITH: That's a good one. I see myself ... I don't know. I see myself as in a way put in a position. Like you said at the very beginning when you were testing the tape. Give meyour name and what you do for a living ... I'm a guitar player. I'm as bemused by what goes on in the world as anybody else and I really see myself as the extension of a very long tradition of troub­adors and balladeers and musicians throughout the ages. I'm not trying to influence anybody in any particular way. I'm far more comfortable with describing how things affect me and seeing if that relates to people than deliberately trying to express what I think is going down in the world. When you're a performer, especially a famous performer, I suppose the best you can do ... as long as you're in touch with people and you don't isolate people ... is reflect what's going on around you. It really does depend on what's going on in the world as to what you write about. If everything went fascist, which is quite likely, you might feel moved to do something, but how to do it and what would have the best effect is another thing. Music is already a reaction ... so you're only saying what you know a lot ofother people are feeling anyway. In the Sixties, although there was an enormous amount of reaction, I don't think we really changed anything in the world. But we were there as asort of anchor point for people who felt that way.
DAVID: As far as I know the Stones have never endorsed any political ideal or ideology, with the exception of Mick turning up at the Grosvenor Square (anti-Vietnam War) demonstration in 1968. Is that the sum total of the public political statement ... one member of the band at one demonstration, once?
KEITH: Yeah, I think probably it is.
DAVID: Did you ever go to any demonstrations?
KEITH: No. I've been on the fringes of them. Also I've said okay I support that or I'll go along with that or I'll sign this petition or do this. There are a lot of wrongs that need righting, but as I say, honestly, I'm a musician and I'm playing a gig. There are many times I wish I'd had my voice felt on certain things, but I happen to be on theother side of the world while it's going on. I think probably the only reason Mick turned up at the Grosvenor Square thing was that he just happened to be there at thesame time. Most of the stuff that went down in the Sixties,we weren't there. We were playing Peoria or somewhere. We'd only hear about it later. To me politics never changes really. When people do get up off their arses and actually do something about it, I find that very interesting, but I'm almost detached from it. To me the most important thing, if I was to make ademonstration is ''Just give me enough air to breathe''. This is the one thing that worries me, whether my kids are going to have any air left to breathe or what. I find these surges of emotion that people have en masse, interesting. After 20 odd years on stage and watching people en masse and the way everyday normal people come to a concert. What the hell would you want to be in the middle of 100,000 people for? And it's raining ... and yet they do it constantly. When people are all together the mass thing takes over. Hitler knew this real well. They become one. It's a sub­conscious desire among people to become part of one big thing so they can forget their own individuality. People are so hung up on their individuality, that sometimes they need an excuse to, for a couple of hours, just become part of this huge swaying thing and be the same as everybody else. It's a mass psychoses. I can understand it because I'm up on stage and basically doing the same thing ... that's why I get post tour depressions. Because while you're doing all that, you don't have to worry about anything else at all. Everything is focussed on that two hours on stage, you've got no time and you can forget all of your worries, all of your personal problems and be a part of this whole huge one thing, like a coral that is all tiny pieces that all seem to fit in. And people need that, otherwise it wouldn't go down so often.
DAVID: So the only political questions that really bother you are about the environment?
KEITH: Basically, yeah. What's the point of fighting about little portions of the earth ... little ants in fratricide and homicide and national boundaries when we're probably polluting ourselves out of the whole game anyway. That's a far greater danger to me. The ozone layer has a hole in it. The weather's changing. All kinds of shit's going down. We don't even know what we're doing to it. It's a global question. It's no longer amatter of national boundaries. Nobody's gonna fight nobody, if there's no air to breathe ... all other problems pale into insignificance. Maybe the fact that we now have global communications just might wise people up to it quick enough to do something about it, but we've created some damage on this globe and we're liable to asphyxiate ourselves. So all the other things are bemusing or amusing. It's very sad for people that get killed, yeah, but we might all die. This is a global problem now. It's got nothing to do with lines on a map. This part is mine and this bit is yours. It's all ours.I just want to make sure there's enough air for my kids to breathe when I'm dead and gone and for my grandchildren to breathe. That would be a nice legacy to leave. But we've already broken through the ozone layer. We don't even knowif we can repair that. How much punishment do you think thisplanet can take? We could be put down as the generation that destroyed the world. There's no two ways about the world. We're on the verge of destroying this world. As my dad says, a fox never shits in its own hole.
DAVID: In England Mrs Thatcher has said she would like to eradicate all the permissiveness and social culture born of the 1960s revolution - a time she despises as dreadful -she's no Jackie Kennedy if you like - an era of which you were not only a key player, but remain a powerful symbol. At the same time your rags to riches success is a perfect example of the ambition and determination that she espouses.What do you think of England in the Eighties under Thatcher... or do you prefer to lie back and think of fucking?
KEITH: I always prefer that to thinking of Maggie Thatcher... England's weird in that it likes an iron maiden. From Bodecia, Elizabeth I, Victoria ... when monarchy meant something ... under a woman they blossom. They love mummy. A cabinet minister can walk out of a meeting with the Prime Minister and say ''Well, what could I do? She's a woman. I had to give in.'' It's an excuse. The English love the mistress with a whip in her hand, they're quirky that way, especially when you get up to that strata of English society. I have this weird ambivalent feeling about England. In one way, ''What a tyrant!'' on the other side of it, anything's preferable to the previous 20y ears of wishy-washy not knowing what's going on. They just wanted someone to come along with a big stick and bash the minto shape. Even guys that I know that were fairly left-wingare comfortable under Maggie at the moment. So I look at it from the outside and wonder what's going on there too. And you can't turn the clock back so there's nothing she can do about the Sixties.
DAVID: Does it worry you that she actually despises that period. A period which means an awful lot to me and I suppose it means a lot to you too. Why would she want to eradicate it all?
KEITH: I don't know. I imagine Maggie wasn't that different then to what she is now. She saw it as a total assault oneverything that she found cosy and comfortable. There's a lot of Mary Whitehouse in Maggie. She's very prim and proper. On the other hand, on the surface, she seems to have whipped the country into a comfortable shape. What do most people care about? Most of England feels that one way or another there is more bread rolling in, there's more employment. Most people worry about the money in their pockets, whether they can feed themselves and so the major task is to make sure that things are at least moving. Whereas nothing seemed to be moving in the Seventies in England. It was one wet flannel after another. Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan ...everything was just dissolving ... more and more people unemployed. Nobody could deal with anything. So I think there's a very ambivalent attitude towards Maggie otherwise she wouldn't have got back in in '87.
DAVID: There is a lot of animosity towards Mrs Thatcher, particularly from people who support the rights of say, homeless people and the bottom strata of society and the reason I raise the question is that Blues and Jazz and Rock'n'roll really come from that strata. People critical of Mrs Thatcher would say, ''Yes, things are moving, but the people who are suffering are suffering worse than they ever have before.''
KEITH: In that respect you have the same situation here. I spend most of my time in this town (New York). The guys are on the streets here, openly begging. You never used to see that. Maybe one or two, but now it's a way of life on the street here. On the street I live on there's virtually a toll booth comprised of dixie cups at either end of the street. You gotto get to know the guys in order to get out of there ... I usually go out with a dixie cup of my own and I say ''Funny, I was going to ask you the same thing''.
DAVID: How do you walk around Manhattan? Do people recognise you every­where you go?
KEITH: If I take the dog for a walk and it starts to rain and a cop car drives by, the police call, ''Hey Keith, you want a lift home, man? You'll get wet''. People just take me as I am. If I'm walking and I turn a corner and some school's just coming out then it can be a hassle because they're coming en masse and someone says ''It's him''. I either run for it or ease through, giving thanks and an autograph. But there's a tremendous amount of goodwill forme in this town. I've had muggers come up to me and suddenly stop. ''Er, can I have your autograph? We don't want to fuck with you man.'' Because I also have this fearsome image, which worries them. They never know if I'm going to pull an Uzi out on them.
DAVID: Just a technical question, Keith, do you have an Uzi?
KEITH: No, I don't like semi-automatics.
DAVID: What do you carry with you for a gentle walk down Broadway?
KEITH: I carry a big stick. My preferred weapon is a Smith and Wesson .38.
DAVID: Turning to the musical changes over the last 20 years... from R&B, from your 12 x 5 album to Rap and Hip Hop and Scratch ... you're not very impressed with anything in the charts, but you constantly go out to shows. Do you still like going to clubs? And what's good to see?
KEITH: I liked InXS. The guys can play. They're a band,They're together. I listen to blues, Robert Johnson, Mozart. To me music is music. The only worrying thing to me is the way the music business keeps pidgeon­holing things more and more. The outlets diminish as you get put into a slot to make it easier for the music business. It makes it harder for music but easier for the music business. If you look at the music trade magazines, Billboard and Cashbox, you have the feeling that they'd like to have achart for every record, so every record could be number one and it could take up all the pages, instead of those blurred photographs of guys having a drink and a gold record. ....
the rest of this interview can be obtained on request from the author. all material copyright David Langsam 1988/1989/1997

samedi, septembre 25, 2004

KEITH RICHARDS - THE ORIGINAL PUNK - By Kris Needs

"Keith is the original punk rocker. You can't out-punk Keith. It's pointless."
So said Mick Jagger after the class of '76 exploded into the rock 'n' roll playground - and he was right.
Keith started laying down a punk blueprint while he was still at school. Despite subjecting his now 60-year-old body to a gamut of abuse and experiences, he's never wavered from being the no-nonsense music-crazy hoodlum that gets into trouble. He just got more famous, more out there and more revered as probably the greatest rock 'n' roll ever to stalk the planet.
There are countless tales of Keith's dedication to excess in the cause of being a self-appointed 'human laboratory'. Just as many about the absolute horror he struck into the hearts of 'decent' people the length and breadth of the land. The brushes with the law, drug busts, car crashes, fights and incidents clubbing unwanted invaders off the stage with his guitar. From refusing to go the silly revolving stage on 60s variety show Sunday Night At The London Palladium through being done for pissing in a garage forecourt to carrying a gun through New York's Lower East Side to cop heroin, Keith's been there and done that with more variations and on a scale few could imagine. On top of this, he has defined the role of rhythm guitarist and didn't earn the Human Riff tag for nothing.
Apart from their influence as the first dangerously anti-establishment band to come out of the 60s, the Stones' no-frills approach to spreading the gospel of the blues and playing vamped up teenage anthems set brand new precedents for rock 'n' roll. But apart from Keith's outlaw attitude, the Stones unwittingly became a motivating force for punk rock because of their very existence and the extravagance which gripped them in the mid-70s.
When the Stones played Earls Court in May '76, they were lambasted for their massive lotus stage, the appalling sound quality and hob-knobbing withPrincess Margaret backstage. The fact that the Earls Court gigs were huge, overblown and musically wretched added fuel to a gathering fire for some members of the audience who had their own bands, called the Sex Pistols and The Clash.
There was something new and scary germinating amongst London's young people at the time. The Pistols had already played their first gigs, boasting how Steve Jones had stolen some of their gear from the Stones' rehearsal space. The Pistols laid out a manifesto that was the opposite of luxury jets, lotus stages and albums that took over a year to record.
Most of London's burgeoning punk community attended Earls Court, and were incensed by the pantomime aspects of the show. The Clash wrote '1977', which declared, 'No Elvis, Beatles or the Rolling Stones in 1977' - despite the fact that their lead guitarist was one of London's most effectiveKeef-a-likes.
'Yeah, and no Sex Pistols in '78!' - Keith would cackle when asked about it.
Punk had an obvious effect on the Stones when they recorded their Some Girls album in late '77. Keith was now trying to come off smack, which was another reason for his full-tilt approach. The album was high-charged and not working-titled More Fast Numbers for nothing. Tracks like 'When The Whip Comes Down' were shot with rampant punk attack, except set in a New York fetish club instead of a tower block.The hidden influence of the Stones on punk was obviously enormous, apart from the obvious hatred from the older generation. As Keith says, Malcolm McLaren was, 'a half-assed Andrew Oldham' - referring to the Stones' original Svengali-style manager who engineered press outrage to gain the Stones notoriety.
Joe Strummer said that the first record that turned him on was the Stones' '63 single 'Not Fade Away'. Mick Jones razor guitar often came over like Keith-on-speed and he got a similar sound to Richards on tunes like 'Clash City Rockers'. In fact, the parallels between The Clash and the Stones were many and striking. The Strummer-Jones partnership could be as volatile as Jagger-Richards but produced some amazing music. Both bands wentto art school, loved American music like Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley and, when they toured the US, insisted that American black music legends support to remind the country of its own heritage. The Clash's at first misunderstood double album, London Calling, has been called their Exile On Main Street - the Stones' masterpiece from '72.
Punk attitude doesn't mean revisiting '77 and imitating Sid. It's in the way you live and approach life. That doesn't mean shouting in a squat, sniffing glue, or wearing the right uniform. It means staying true to yourself, not following the herd and, if necessary, living outside of the rules imposed by those who think they know. Keith's always done that. He's a family man these days but hasn't lost that fire and thirst for music and adventure.
Robert Johnson, Keith Richards, Joe Strummer, Andrew Weatherall, Pete Doherty...don't matter when you were born or what musical bucket you've plopped into. The attitude's what counts and what comes out of it. Even as a punk seeing The Clash every week, I never lost my respect for what the Stones had done, even when they were losing the plot. I'd been fanatically immersed since '63 and made interviewing Keith my top ambition when I started writing about music in the mid-70s and top priority when I took over as Editor of Zigzag. In 1980 the chance came after much pestering of press officers and now I've encountered him several more times up over the years. He's become a kind of long distance mate, which I find fairly surreal.
Last year, I realised another lifetime ambition and started writing a book about Keith. Easier said than done. It turned into a year-long obstacle course with problems like my mum getting ill, school holidays and a missionary zeal setting in which occasionally threatened my relationship with Michelle until I gave up the method acting. The fact I turned in more than double the amount of text required didn't help - and I still wasn't finished ! So what's coming out around now as Keith Richards - Before They Make Me Run [Plexus] has been very chopped about and changed with hardly any room for pictures. It's still just about my version of Keith's story and my relationship with him and his music though.
My first encounter with Keith in the flesh was shaking his hand after his trial at my local Aylesbury Crown Court for cocaine possession in '77. But I'll now hand over to myself in the book for an abridged account of our first interview...
'Our rendezvous was to be on Friday September 26, ['80] at Blake's Hotel, an exclusive and plush little establishment owned by former actress Anouska Hempel. The day after being summoned, I duly arrived at the pre-arranged time and was told to ring his room on the house phone.
"Hello", said a familiar-sounding voice.
Somewhat flutteringly, I announced myself.
"I'll be right down".
Two minutes later in strode Keith Richards, accompanied by Patti Hansen. Grey army sweater, black thatch, big grin and outstretched hand, all aboard that unique, loose-limbed amble.
"How ya doin', man?".
Not even seventeen years of immersion in everything to do with the Stones could prepare me for that first face-to-face meeting. But all nerves evaporated instantly with that first grin. There was no way I felt anything like an annoying gnat to be dispatched away as soon as possible - like I'd encountered with many a lesser so-called Rock Star.
"We'll do the interview at the Stones office", he announced, before a typical Keith afterthought. "Now I've just gotta find the car!"
We embarked on a bit of exploratory action around Kensington, while chatting away. I immediately felt at ease in his company and he was obviously deeply in love with Patti. He must be so used to awestruck fans, but didn't pull any play-acting or strops, and within minutes he was more like a mate. Didn't feel awestruck, just really fuckin' happy.
We traversed those high-class streets with a "I know it's round here somewhere" narrative from Keith., who was also explaining how they'd got back in the early hours that morning from Tramps night-club. Finally, we rounded into a leafy square, where we spotted the faithful Bentley. It's named 'the Blue Lena' after jazz singer Lena Horne, and she was halfway up the curb.
No chauffeurs here, and tales of Keith's gung ho approach to driving flashed through my head. Away we went! Through Kensington down to the Embankment, with Keith chatting away happily about what the Stones had been up to. By now it was approaching rush hour, so the traffic was fairly busy.
Suddenly Keith broke off the conversation.
"Oops, I'm going the wrong way!".
Without a second thought and at rather high speed, he launched into a tyre-shredding u-turn across three lanes of rush hour traffic, blowing kisses and waving regally at the gaping homebound motorists. There was much commotion and horn-parping, but we were soon heading the right way to Cheyne Walk, home of the Stones office.
We backed up to the front door and strode in. "Hi, darlin'", Keith greeted the receptionist, who was already reaching under her desk. "Jack Daniel's?" Out came the bottle and we headed up the stairs, with Keith leading the way to a comfy room, where we both slumped on a luxurious brown leather couch. Here, Keith commenced the emptying of both the Jack Daniel's bottles and my packet of Marlboros.
Keith in interview mode goes a bit like his driving - wherever it takes him. A languorous, cackle-peppered drawl, dotted with succinct comments and hilarious one-liners. That was the big surprise - and the one no one really bothers to tell you - this is one funny man. Keith's a past master of the swerve, but he released tantalising glimpses of a lot more going on in his life, brain and behind closed doors. Of his family life he was protective. Of his drug use astonishingly frank - in retrospect, after he'd knocked it on the head and had no fear of being busted again. About the group and music? Now you were talking.
My front page feature in the November, 1980, Zigzag led off with the following description, which still seems relevant today: 'The 1980 model Keith Richards is devoid of Rock Star flash, maturing like a caring, kindly old blues musician. But he still possesses an indefinable swagger that makes any of the preening idiots that still profess to be R 'n' R stars look the pathetic buffoons they really are."
That is the difference, and in many cases still is, between Keith and fellow musicians of a similar age group. He does what he wants to when wants to. He certainly won't stamp his foot and blow out a gig a few minutes before he's due on because some of the audience are smoking. I hate the phrase "down to earth" but Keith seems to revel in being as normal as possible with his wealth and fame, while still existing in, what experts call, "Keith time". No rules, no "petty morals" but, when you strip it down to the naked Keith, a major heart-grasping passion for the thing that got him going in the first place. Music.
He talked about Rolling Stones Records' star of the moment, Jim Carroll, from the East Village - the New York hotbed, which had also spawned Patti Smith, writer-musician Richard Hell, and a host of artists thriving under the original shadow cast by figureheads like the Velvet Underground and William Burroughs. Heroin had played a major role during this explosion, and Carroll's novel, The Basketball Diaries, was a brilliantly graphic account of the subterranean world which it ruled. Jim's debut album, Catholic Boy, was lined up to be released on Rolling Stones Records, trailered by the single, 'People Who Died'. This was essentially a role call of street acquaintances of Carroll's, who'd gone a hit too far.
Keith started laughing: "Yeah...I did a couple of numbers with him in New York, but I was drunk so 'yeah, alright!'. Actually Mick was supposed to join me but he chickened out at the last minute. Cunt."
Keith was fascinating company and a major laugh to interview. We swigged Jack from the bottle, leaned back and he simply soaked up my enthusiastic fan-type probings with relish before coming out with superbly insightful answers. He talked about the Stones' image.
'It gets impossible if you try and live up to it. We just do what we do and hope they like it. I mean, usually more and more you find that people come up with interesting ideas on an album a year later. Me too. It'll take that long to get a perspective on the last album. I'm too close to it right now. I've only just healed up from the last sessions! [laughs]. Beat me own record - nine days on a stretch! Once you get in the studio it doesn't really matter. It's timeless, like hibernation [snigger]. One tape op drops, you wake another one up!
'At this juncture I pointlessly came out with, 'So how d'ya keep awake then?' 'I dunno', smiled Keith. 'I can only do it when I'm working really.I've got a cycle of it by now. Normally I get up and I'll be up for two or three days, but when you're working...'
Really, with Keith, it's down to boredom thresholds crashing down. That's why he used to get back into serious heroin use when tours finished. Nothing else to do and energy to burn. He went on to bemoan the lack of decent venues in London but said he loved playing three-thousand-seater theatres in the States - "Kept us on our toes. It's a totally different way of playing." That one has grown and grown over the years.
Keith hated the 1976 'unfolding lotus' because he had to kick the set off with his "Honky Tonk Women" intro astride one of the petals. Not the most practical of ideas for the man who fell on his arse when he slipped on a stage-lobbed frankfurter [in Frankfurt!].
I must stress that, before the interview, I had made a mental note not to launch into tabloid-style 'Shocking Truth About Drug Fiend Keith' probing, unless he brought up this well scraped bone himself. The Canadian bust was only recent then and so much had been written on Keith's personal life it would've just seemed predictable and brainless to try and prise more juice out of his weary and battered reputation. On the other hand, heroin had been close to Keith's heart for years and he'd brought the subject up himself as our conversation gained steam. I mentioned how he'd always be lumbered with the rock 'n' roll junkie chic number. Another swig from the Jack - another of my fags - and that shaking-head grin. Keith's off for about the next twenty minutes on this one. Even though he's talked openly about his addiction from then until the present day, in 1980 this was the first time I'd encountered him being this candid anywhere.
So here's Keith on drugs...
'Yeah...I ain't gonna get rid of that one easy, am I? [Laughs] Maybe if I keep my nose clean as long as I kept it dirty they'll forget about it.'
I wondered if he still continued to get hassled about it.
'No...no. S'funny. [Leans forward and whacks table] Touch wood! It's like they've said, 'oh, we've had a go at him, he's done his bit, we'll leave him alone, he's kept his end up'...which I certainly didn't do for them. I did it for the Stones and for myself, the kids, whatever...'
Keith was plain angry with what he considered to be a concerted plan to bring down the Rolling Stones via repeated drug busts. It worked with Brian. They pried into his private-life, put all the dirt in lights then accused him of being a bad influence on the kids.
'Right,' he agreed, looking quite pissed off. 'Not only would you get done for what you got done for, you'd get done for setting a bad example. If they hadn't have come smashing through my front door no-one would've known what example I was setting! They made it public. Not me. I could understand it if I'd gone round saying "oh yeah, have a needle and a spoon, go off and have a good time, that's what it's all about." But I wasn't about to go round advertising it. They advertised it, then I had to pay for it. But fuck it, it happens to lots of people.'
I don't know how much the powers that be all work together or communicate with each other but it was like, how many more times would they have done me without it looking really like a bit of 'let's pick on him', y'know? I was an easy target. They knew I was on the stuff. They could've come round every day! That's why I eventually had to say 'no more'. I don't wanna see 'em any more. I was seeing more of cops and lawyers than I was of anybody else. To my mind, in the business of crime there's two people involved, and that's the criminal and the cops. It's in both their interests to keep crime a business, otherwise they're both out of a job. So they're gonna look for it. They ain't gonna wait for it to happen.'
By now, Keith was warming to his subject. He seemed to be letting out all his feelings about the last few years of smack domination, and was obviously proud of beating it. It had been some struggle. Having scanned all Keith's press, as a matter of keeping up with the Stoneses, I'd not encountered him opening up like this on the subject. He had the fire and determination of the man in denial who'd got there, and wanted the world to know, while also telling himself. Comment, observation, confession...call it what you want. He'd only been off the stuff completely for six months, so this was possibly the first interview he'd done clean for over ten years. It was Keith Richards talking about heroin, frankly and honestly, for twenty minutes straight. And in some little fanzine too!'
There's no way of writing about anything like that. It doesn't matter which way you angle it or state your case. Somebody's going to get turned on by it, Saying it's 'not chic', that means it's chic. If you said it was chic...there's no way of writing about it because it's such an emotional an sensitive subject. The main thing is, why, especially in this business, do people go onto it in the first place? What are the pressures? Is it the one guy above you that you dig the way he plays. Charlie Parker has done more to turn lots of horn-players into junkies just because it happened to be known. If people had left him alone, and nobody had known he was a junkie, maybe it would've been better. Why go searching out making sensational stories when you know that, just because the cops bust somebody if they're popular musicians or a superstar, there's gonna be somebody, no matter what that guy's going through himself, who's going to try and emulate it in some way?'
There's no right way about writing about heroin. There's plenty of wrong ways, and it's difficult to know. Ever since I kicked it, and cleaned up, I've been bombarded with requests and offers to make a statement about this, or address judges. I've been asked to do lectures for judges! The chance I've been waiting for - FUCK YOU! What else am I gonna say to them about dope? I'd just be embroiling myself and keeping myself in the same bag, attaching myself to the same thing that I'm trying to get rid of.
'Probably the only thing that might have any effect is, once everybody knows you're a junkie then yeah, you are an example. They've made you one, whether you wanna be, or not. So the only example I can be now is to say, 'yeah, I've done it for longer than most people, and luckily came out the other end, and I'm still here, and I'm alright. Even if you're into it already and you need to kick it, at least you know, because I'm still here. If you want to, you can kick it, and the sooner the better, darlin'.
'If there's one thing I can talk about more than music and guitars, I can talk about dope! It's like guns. There's nothing wrong with the gun. It's the people who are on the trigger. Guns are an inanimate object. A heroin needle's an inanimate object. It's what's done with it, that's important. I think of all these people doing it, and not even knowing what they're doing. That, to me, is the dumbest thing. At least, by the time I got on it, I knew as much as you can know.
'The one thing that I've realised more than anything since I kicked it, is that the criteria you use when you're on it is so distorted from what you'd use normally. I know the angle - waiting for the man, sitting in some godamn basement waiting for some creep to come, with four other guys snivelling, puking and retching around. And you're waiting for something to happen, and it's already been 24 hours, and you're going into the worst. How does it feel, baby? You don't feel great. If I was Joe Blow, maybe I'd still be on it, I dunno. I wouldn't take any notice of what I was saying if I was listening to it, or anybody else, cos when you're on it you don't.
'The only thing I can say is, if you want to, it's no big deal to kick it. Everybody wants to make like, 'oh, I've been to hell and back'. You've only been half way, baby. Nobody's been there and back. Anyway, here I am. Ten years I did it, and then I stopped, and I'm still 'ere. I've still got two legs, two arms luckily, and a bit of a head left, and that's about it. If examples count at all, that's the only statement I can make. I'm still here.
'In America it's even worse, because you have doctors coming on TV, discussions about the drug problem. These doctors...the more patients they get on methadone, the bigger federal grant they get, so it's in their interest. They tell people who've been on it a few months, a year, 'your body can't do without heroin, you'll need methadone forever'. Bullshit. You can kick it in three fucking days. That's as long as it stays in you. After that, it's up to you. I might oversimplify it in saying that, but that's the way it's always hit me. It's a physical thing for me in almost every way. If I can kick those three days...
"The other big problem is not cleaning them up, just sending 'em back. The same with me. The times I cleaned up and went straight back to exactly the same scene I was in before. What else you gonna do? You've been doing it for years. Everybody you know is doing it. You're kind of locked in. Unless you can break out of that circle afterwards...that's the next step. You're back in that same room as five years before, when you were on it, and they're still calling you up. Same people are coming around. It's a total drug, like total war. It takes over your whole life, every aspect of it eventually.
"I used to clean up to do a tour, because I just didn't want to be on the road, and have to be hassled. But, physically having to readjust when a tour just stops - [snaps fingers] - 'Now what do I do?' I'm physically readjusting to then going home and living a quiet family life for two months [!]. That'd do me in. Bom-bom, I'd go back on it. But if I had to work I'd clean up. But what a hassle! When you're on it you'll go through any hassle to get it. "First get me the dope, then I'll do what I have to do".
'Since then, Keith has refined his heroin overview. As this was his first interview off the gear, it was all coming off the top of his head, channelled from an awakened soul. The stupid tragedy on my behalf was listening enthralled as Keith opened his heart, taking it all in, then later doing the classic and diving in headfirst myself. Not because of Keith Richards, either. I became besotted with a female, who was besotted with heroin. Keith's words would often ring around my head...
One of Keith's scoring spots used to be the City's Lower East Side - same place and era as Johnny Thunders, who we met last month! Keith had been going there since the 70s. In those days, venturing East past Avenue A was totally off-limits to anyone who was white or not on dope. Avenue D stood for Death. Most of the buildings were burnt out, the streets were ruined and filthy, and practically unattended by cops. Simmering violence, imminent robbery and heroin etiquette ruled. The latter meant that you wouldn't think twice of ripping off someone you'd known for ten years. 'I carried a piece then.' And no fucking wonder. Go to all the trouble of scoring, then someonegrabs it back on the way out. 'You can't have that', muttered Keith.
What I'm getting at, is that Keith was venturing to the darkest, most dangerous, spots on earth to feed his habit. And, having been there myself, I can vouch that it is not self- mythologizing exaggeration when he describes these outings.
As you can imagine, by now the interview had quite loosened up. So, maybe we could talk about another delicate subject. Around that time I'd just read Up And Down With the Rolling Stones by Tony Sanchez - probably the most blatant muck raking cash-in on the Stones' dark side published to date. 'Spanish' Tony was Keith's minder during the height of his addiction and made sure he dished as much dirt as he could muster - homing in particularly on the drugs. It was recently published again with the new title, 'I Was Keith Richards Drug Dealer'. Keith emerges as a selfish junkie who changed his blood more often than his socks. The tabloids loved it, of course. By this time in our chat, I felt that I could mention it, and not get shot. But Keith dismissed the book with a grin and a shrug.
'Ohh...Grimm's Fairy Stories, yeah! Unbelievable, that. When it got to the blood change bit I thought 'oh, here we go!' Marvellous. 'Then he sprouted wings...' Actually, it wasn't him who wrote it, just some hack from Fleet Street. I'm the nasty, dirty, yellow schnide. Oh nice, Tony. thanks. You're my friend! Actually, it's quite clever. The actual incidents all happened, but then halfway through each chapter the description takes off into fantasy. This guy says Mick and I buried Brian, we made sure that nobody would ever see him again...but the guy's gotta make an angle or how ya gonna sell the book? The Fleet street hack thinks in terms of headlines. Spanish Tony had been with us for a long time, and a lot of the incidents in broad outline happened, but some of the details...I just gave up on the blood change! It's surprising the number of people believe all that. No doubt some people do it.
'That one came about like this. I'd been in a clinic in Switzerland. Spanish Tony came to help us move into a house. Tony asked, "What did they do to you up there?". I could hardly remember anyway and I'd only been in there about a week. I'd just crashed out virtually, went around puking in the ashtrays, ripping down the furniture and fittings for a couple of days and then I'd sort of got better, as usual. I couldn't explain all this to Tony so I said, 'Oh, they took all my blood out and gave me some fresh blood. All cleaned up!" Slowly over the years that one sentence has become one huge..."oh, the blood change, man", y'know? It's funny - one remark because you can't be bothered to explain and before you know it that's what you are. They probably wouldn't have sold any books without that.
When it was time to wind up proceedings, I flung in some remark about how Keith must be quite pleased how all this turned out, considering the humble origins, and how many kids like him start playing guitar just for fun.
'Yeah, right. That's what I thought when we had two gigs a week - "oh great! No more schlepping round this artwork trying to get a job in an advertising agency," and I chucked it. "I'm making a tenner a week, ain't I? I'm alright. As long as I don't break strings, or a valve goes in the amplifier, I'll come out with a fiver at the end of the week - be alright!"
So it was always like that. They just added more zeroes on the end as it went on, but as far as I'm concerned, it's the same attitude since we got our first gig: "Fine, great, wow! I'm doing what I really wanna do, and they're paying me to do it!"
And, on that note, a very pleasant afternoon drew to a close, along with the bottle of Jack Daniel's. Pleasant farewells were said, and I left the Stones office on a bit of a cloud. It's not every day you fulfil a lifelong ambition, and interviewing Keith had been more than I could have hoped for. I could look at and listen to the Stones in a different light, reflect on what exactly went into that latest creation.
I could also stagger off the train back home in Aylesbury with a Jack Daniel's grin on my face, fall into the local pub, raise a joyful fist, and bellow, 'Fuck me! I've just got pissed with Keith Richards!' And not have to buy another drink all night.
1983 came with an another close encounter with Keith. I'd taken over the editor's chair of a magazine called Flexipop! the year before. Up until then it'd been a forum for chart acts of the time like Soft Cell, Culture Club and Duran Duran. But they always tried to go for different angles than the usual 'favourite food', often with a somewhat perverted twist. Magazines like Smash Hits were selling bucket-loads, but there was only a number of ways you could apply twisted humour to someone like Simon Le Bon.
My first cover feature had been about The Clash, and I rattled off surreal bollocks on anyone and everything until the publishers - bless 'em - made me editor. This synthesised pop-pap needed raunching up, I thought. We started taking the piss relentlessly. One memorable issue featured a cartoon of a certain cross-dressing New Romantic icon naked in the shower while a psychotic pig tried to ram a salami up his tradesman's. The old queen was not amused.
I thought it would be a top move to put Keith in my new organ. After all, he was the epitome of rock 'n' roll, plus a lot of the new underground were copying his look and lifestyle - and often failing miserably. Let's have the originator! So I called then-Stones PR Alan Edwards and requested an interview.
Within weeks I got the call...Keith would be doing one interview - and he wanted it to be me. It turned out he'd seen the Zigzag piece and loved it. He wanted to hang out and talk some more. Well, I'll be the Devil's scrotum!
This time the venue would be his favourite Savoy Hotel in London. Around then, whenever he was in London, Keith booked the same suite as used by Frank Sinatra. He seemed to like the fact that the living room view was a brick wall - no spies! - and you could get round-the-clock Shepherd's Pie and Jack Daniel's.
When I arrived Keith was out shopping. So I sat chatting with Alan Edwards, who a few years later would find himself looking after Elton John instead. Ironic one that: Keith's had always found the self-important little crooner a pain in the arse, and incurred Elly's bitchy wrath when he later dismissed his work as "Songs for dead blondes".
Pretty soon the pair arrived. Keith was wearing his battle-grey designer jacket, white shirt and jeans. Even compared to our last meeting, he looked obscenely healthy and happy. When I thought back to the tragic figure in that court-room in Aylesbury only a few years before I glowed myself. This time Keith greeted me like an old mate with a massive hug, catch-up chat and prompt offering of a long line of in-flight refreshments. He happily posed for polaroids, even insisting on taking some himself. The interview went on for about three hours and the fun didn't stop there.
When the subject of punk rock came up, Alan Edwards, who had been butting into the interview to Keith's gathering irritation, added that only one band came out of the whole punk generation, which was still a fresh memory in '83. Yeah The Clash, I said automatically. 'Two then - the Stranglers and The Clash,' said Alan, who happened to be looking after the Stranglers at the time.
'The Clash and the Stranglers,' agreed Keith, democratically. 'And they're least punkish out of the whole lot! Compared to the Sex Pistols - because that's your definition of punk, right? Snotty little...pukey little...that's a punk, right? I've never understood why anybody would want to put that particular label on themselves and be proud of it. [Adopts sneering tone] A punk's a punk, hur hur! The phrase that still hangs on is New Wave, which came out at the same time. People still use it now. In a way it's more valid, because each wave that comes in...it doesn't really mean anything. New Wave? My next album - that's new fuckin' wave baby! It's the last thing I've done that's gonna hit the shore. Take it or leave it.'
He talked about the way the Stones' first manager Andrew 'Loog' Oldham thrust the group into the newspapers as a planned strategy, thus ensuring fame and notoriety.
'We had it down. That's where we learned it all from. That's why we'd turn up at the Savoy dressed in clothes where we knew we weren't gonna get in. You have to have a tie and a suit - 'specially in the early Sixties - to get in these places. We'd deliberately turn up and make sure there were a couple of photographers around. That is what it was based on. We played the game of manipulation of The Media. I mean, Malcolm McLaren is a half-assed Andrew Oldham."
'A Clockwork Orange' fascinated the Stones at the time and peppered Oldham's sleeve-notes for the early Stones albums: "Yeah, and I was into it as he was. We used to go round in his American car with his chauffeur-cum-bruiser and beat up people on the way. It was great fun. We'd build a brick wall in front of somebody's driveway in the middle of the night. Cement and everything - six foot brick wall...spend all night doing it. Especially if it was somebody that we'd made a phone call to who had to be in London at six o'clock in the morning. Whizz out of their stately home at five in the morning and bash straight into this brick wall built right across their driveway!".
Keith expounded on the way he presented himself to people while having to live up to his monstrous image. 'Thing is you're one of the Rolling Stones. You're Keith Richards Of The Rolling Stones and you play that game to a certain extent, because it's what you have to do. As long as I ain't bullshitted by being Keith Richards Of The Rolling Stones, I don't give a damn. I don't mind bullshitting other people! You want this Keith Richards? You want that Keith Richards? Then there's your Keith Richards! You know me better, even though we've only met a couple of times, cos I can talk to you, in a way that I'd never talk to [tabloid journalist] John Blake. I give him his version of Keith Richards. If I thought it served a purpose I'd stick him up against a wall and put a knife to his throat. And he'd write about it and get a scoop. I'd just need the opportune moment to do it. I don't see why I shouldn't. I'd dearly love to. And not just him either.'
After the interview it was time for some fun. 'Fresh supplies' were obtained and Keith greeted an ever-growing stream of visitors who'd heard he were in town. Soon it was like a mini-party in there.
At the time I was working at a Soho club called the Bat Cave, which was at the forefront of the burgeoning glam-goth movement. It eschewed the seriousness of the Gothic movement for silly fun and frolics with glam rock, disco, outrageous stage acts and the odd band. I tried to inject a rock 'n' roll element, which meant playing the Stones when I deejayed. I had to do so that night and, much to my surprise, Keith decided he was coming too. He went on about it for hours, deflecting incoming phone invitations from the likes of Pete Townsend with a sharp 'Nah, I'm going to the Bat Cave with Kris.'
Unfortunately, just as it was time to leave Keith's lawyer turned up and he had to have a meeting. 'Gimme a call from the club, I still might be able to make it', he said and scribbled down his room number plus 'Mr Hannay' - the alias he'd chosen for this particular stay. [Mr Hannay was a character in famous movie 'The 39 Steps'].
The whole club was buzzing about a possible visit from Keith. I called Mr Hannay about three hours later, from a pay phone situated right next to the dance-floor. He'd just finished his meeting and by now the party was in full swing, 'Come back for a night-cap,' he said. Still not quite believing all this, I returned to the Savoy for another ten hours of rampant imbibing, dub reggae and top Keef anecdotes. Unfortunately - and unsurpisingly - I can hardly remember any of them!
He did let me try on that legendary skull ring though, and also showed me the maker's catalogue. 'It's there to stop me getting big-headed and remind me that beauty is only skin deep. We all look like this under the surface.'
One thing I do remember is getting a crash course on [music hall comedian] Stanley Holloway, along with Max Miller. 'You've gotta hear this guy!' said Keith with a huge grin at about seven in the morning. At this point Keith started talking about his love of the great comedians. He didn't have much time for your non-funny Ben Elton-type wankers, but went on for ages about vintage music hall-era greats like Flanagan and Allan and the Three Stooges. And, of course, Tony Hancock and Tommy Cooper. He whacked on Stanley Holloway and knew every line: joining in, pointing and cracking up frequently at the gentle East End humour with piano accompaniment.
Quite a 24 hours, that. My first proper sesh with Keith and he was more than the perfect host. I was expecting an aching hooter and came out with splitting sides. Next day I went looking for a Stanley Holloway album and found a compilation called - wait for it - 'Brahn Boots'! I dug it out when I was writing this and, when I visited Keith twenty years later, before one of the 'Licks' gigs, gave it to him. 'Ah, great, Stanley!' he said with a cackle.
One night the following year, I was sitting at home one night in Wandsworth, South London. Funnily enough, by then I'd also hitched up with a girl from New York called Patti. We'd had a slight tiff, so I was feeling a bit low. Then the phone rang:
'Kris?' said a familiar voice.
'Yeah.'
'It's Keith here. I'm in town for a few days. Wanna come over for a drink? Savoy Hotel. Just you, right?'
Well, I'll be the Devil's Scrotum for a second time! Within minutes I was out of the door and on a 77 bus to The Strand. I suppose in a bit of a shocked condition. I have never maintained the male groupie mentality, but it isn't every night that you get a phone call from your all-time musical hero inviting you over for a drink. Interviews are fine if you get on - as had happened on our previous encounters - but they're an arranged scenario. Here I was going for a sesh, at the man's invitation.
I duly arrived at the front desk in the auspicious foyer and gave the password name, which could've still been Mr Hannay. It was the same suite as before. Knocked on the door. A grinning Keith answered himself. Expecting a full-blown party to be in full swing I was quite surprised to find him on his own, apart from a guy called Alan Clayton. He turned out to be the singer in the Dirty Strangers, which Keith had enthused about on our previous meeting.
The Dirty Strangers were a London-based band who had been playing blues-based rock 'n' roll around the pubs and clubs for years. The Dirties proudly flew the rock 'n' roll flag in those New Romantic times, mainly playing the pub circuit. A chaotic but hugely enjoyable knees-up. Decidedly un-trendy, they seemed to remind Keith of his early days. Alan had met Keith in '81 through a mutual friend called Joe Seabrook, who was his minder - they'd been nightclub bouncers together.
When Keith was visiting London during the period when Mick was busy, he wanted to hang out with mates. Alan had been up to the Savoy several times already, even though he was working on a building site at the time, and sometimes had to go to work straight from an all-nighter with Mr Richards!
Keith had a problem. He was due to fly to Jamaica the next day and, being Keith Richards, could not board the plane with the bag of killer weed and added extras someone had left in the room. 'Our mission tonight is...' There were also several bottles of Jack Daniel's lined up.
So in we went and I embarked on one of the most remarkable nights of my life. I wouldn't say memorable! Refreshments were broken out and, within an hour, we were chatting, joking and, it must be said, giggling a lot. The three of us approached our consumable-obliterating task with gusto. As ever, Keith's mighty boom-box was blasting out the dub and it struck me how relaxed he was. Away from the press officers, assistants, hangers-on, and with no microphone in front of him. Jokes were exchanged of a toilet nature and the music hall tapes came out.
Keith has been portrayed as many things, and I've always found him friendly and accommodating when doing the interviews. But here he was just hanging out with the boys and having a laugh. It's an old cliche, but he could have been a top bloke you'd met down the pub. It was like, in a life nobody could call normal, Keith Richards could unwind in his home town without any outside pressure, hassle or duty to perform.
But it was inevitable that the guitars would come out. I was sitting about three feet away as Keith picked up a large Gibson accoustic and started picking some mean and lowdown blues. He used it to punctuate his words as he talked. Close up, Keith's guitar style is awesome. He goes on about how he'd stand next to Jerry Lee Lewis and have to stop playing as his jaw hit the floor. I wasn't playing anything - can't! - but that didn't stop my own chin crashing into the carpet as Keith closed his eyes and let fly into his own personal heaven. Chords richocheted between scattershot flourishes and fills, delivered with either brutal power or gentle affection. He struck, stroked and steered the instrument with a sublime motion that goes way beyond mere skill. For those minutes Keith was in the dark heart and soul of the original blues. No wonder his hero is Robert Johnson. When Keith first heard the music of the blues' greatest legend, he asked Brian Jones who the other guitarist was. If this had been a record, I would have been asking who were the other two, although occasionally he'd simply twist your heart with one solitary groin-snarling note.
At Keith's insistence, Alan played one of his songs. Looking a trifle nervous - who wouldn't? - he acquitted himself just fine with 'Gambler's Blues'. And got a round of applause back.
Next it was Keith's turn again. It couldn't be. Fuck me if it wasn't. 'Wild Horses'. Five minutes later Keith and Alan were still trying to scrape me off the ceiling.
The night went on. A bit of Max Miller, fresh supplies of Jack, more strumming, more of everything, until at around six in the morning Keith came out with his own piece d'resistance. Mischievous gleam in his eye, he bounded over to the phone and dialled room service. 'Just you wait until you try this!'
Soon the trolley turned up, the porter wheeled it in, receiving a twenty pound note for his trouble and Keith unveiled...shepherd's pie! With peas.
Over the years, the man's obsession with shepherd's pie has become legendary. In 1984 it was a littler known fact, but he was obviously already a connoisseur as we stuffed ourselves. It was probably half the reason he stayed at the Savoy! It was certainly top of the list of things he missed most in the UK, along with PJ Tips teabags and brown sauce.
As the sun began to stream in through the window, Keith tottered into the bedroom and commenced a phone call which went on for over an hour. It must've been to Patti, as he chuckled contentedly and spoke low and affectionately, with a massive smile on his face. Eventually, he came off the phone, walked in, and looked around. 'Aah, fuck the plane!' and we started again. Only for a while though. We were all drifting off. Me and Al said our warm goodbyes, with Keith telling me to call him the next day to see if he was still around.
Next day I called the Savoy from a phone box in Tooting, where I had just been to sign on. Got through to Keith immediately, who was laughing. We swapped 'good night, wunnit?' type chat, but he couldn't meet up. Keith was finally going to make that plane.
We met again in '92 when Keith was on the road with his side project, the X-pensive Winos. I'd recently started hanging out with well-known Stones aficionados Primal Scream and it was a well-oiled rabble that caught the 'secret' gig at London's old Marquee club, then another show at the Town &Country on 18 December. Both were belters, Keith in total control, stalking the stage like a panther, chords crackling out of his hands, which occasionally flew off his guitar in visual counterpart. Stripped of the Stones' excessive trappings it was a pure punk rock jolt and his version of 'Gimme Shelter' froze the blood. At the after-show party in the upstairs bar, our Scream Team, who had ushered proceedings along with a few happy pills, occupied the next table to Keith's family - proud dad Bert, missus Patti and son Marlon. Having met them before I made some cheery greeting, but they probably wondered who this bunch of lunatics were.
Then Keith, who was celebrating his 49th birthday, staggered in clutching a pint glass of vodka with a hint of orange. To my total surprise,he spotted me, grinned and made a convoluted beeline through the clamouring music biz mob to our table. He gave me a bear hug and 'How ya doin', man? Long time no see.' I wished him happy birthday. Of course, he was soon shepherded away into the throng, but that made my night. And you should have seen the look on Primal Scream's faces. They went back to the studio, where they were supposed to be recording what became Give Out But Don't Give Up and continued the party until morning, in Keith's honour [Any excuse!].
Last time I saw Keith was during the 2003 'Licks' tour. Global affirmation of the Stones longevity and ability to still do it like nobody else. I'd started knocking about with Alan Clayton again, who showed me this amazing gift Keith had given to him - the Gibson Hummingbird on which he wrote many of the Stones' late 60s classics. Alan went on some of the 'Licks' tour as Keith's travelling companion and was inspirational while I was writing the book.
My 40 years of following the Stones came full circle when me and my girlfriend Michelle went to see them at Wembley Arena that September. Alan had said he'd ask Keith if we could come back and say hello. When we got to the gig Alan found us and said 'Follow me'. He'd had a word with Keith and it was alright to pop back and see him while support band The Darkness squeaked away. Led by we went through a few doors, up a corridor and into what turned out to be Keith's dressing room.
Big sound system, low lights and a well-stocked fridge. Vic Reeves and his girlfriend lurking in the corner. Michelle walked in and took her shoes off. She was nervous about meeting him for the first time. 'No need,' I'd already said.
When we walked in Keith was in the centre of the room in conversation with a guy making a biopic of Gram Parsons. It was already surreal but very chilled.
Keith ambled over, hand extended, big grin. The usual 'How ya doin', man?' and bear hug. People have said you don't see Keith for years, then you do and it's like you saw him last week. He looked great, in a green military-style jacket, black bandana and stuff swinging about in his hair.
I introduced him to Michelle. 'Hi darling,' he said, as he kissed her hand with a gentlemanly flourish. Her nerves evaporated. Soon, Ronnie Wood came bouncing in, accompanied by his old mate Jeff Beck. A few minutes later Patti Hansen showed up. It turned into the best twenty-minute party I've ever been to.
It was great seeing him again, and he signed my programme '20 years on, one love'. We chatted a bit. He didn't really have to fill me in on what he'd been up to over the years, so I told him some of the incidents that had gone on my end. We agreed that smack was best left behind now. I can't believe how relaxed and friendly the atmosphere was. But it was one of those blurry, dream-like moments that go in a flash.
Then it was approaching show time so Keith and Ronnie had to getchanged. Cheery goodbyes as they hopped up and down into their stare stridesand Mr Clayton led us off on the nearest cloud. When Michelle left she asked Keith if she could give him a kiss. He obliged with a hug thrown in.
The Stones' set was an electrifying charge through some of their greatest moments and we were in the thick of the crowd near the stage. One of the best gigs I've ever seen and one of those nights you cherish forever.
So I've finished the Keith book and now I'm doing Joe Strummer and The Clash. A totally natural progression, if you ask me. The connecting word is greatness.
Kris Needs - tMx 15 - 06/04